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德国人是否骂默克尔是德奸卖国贼? 第1页

  

user avatar   Metaphox 网友的相关建议: 
      

这个问题在时间线上晃来晃去很多次,总觉得三言两语说不清楚,要铺开介绍背景也比较啰嗦,就一直没有理会。但 Lightwing 的答案实在太过莫名其妙,引发的关注角度偏离了问题本身,所以我在这里陈列几个我与问题相关的个人观感,谈不上以正视听,请各位自行解读:

  1. 战后到现在的德国人并不接受我们视如平常(或者说普通国家的国民所可能获得的)爱国主义教育,而是某种「恨国主义」教育:二战乃至一战的历史被不成比例地掰开揉碎灌入脑中,详细分析和介绍德国怎样引发世界大战和执行种族灭绝,尤其强调德国引发战争的 Erbschuld,「继承罪债」(德语中债务和错误 / 罪责是同一个词)应该世世代代永远背负在德国人(或者说在德国的德意志民族)身上。没有商讨的余地,也没有「人家也是受害者呢」这样的自我开脱。这种教育不止是一遍,而是从小说到大,贯穿若干科目(历史,语文,政治)轮番轰炸,也是官方历史叙事唯一可能持有的观点。感兴趣的人可以去了解一下 Erinnerungskultur,「纪念文化」,神似「勿忘国耻」,只不过在完全相反的方向上。
  2. 上一条在历久经年的洗脑之后产生了两种效果:
    1. 德国人清晰地知道自己的民族犯过什么样的错误,并且日常活在这样的认知之下。甚至有重要的思想家认为德国犯下过奥斯维辛这样的罪行,所以不配重新统一[1]。而就好像是集体的潜意识行为一样,大多数成年人倾向于避免在公共场合提及自己的德国国民身份,一句话里如果同时出现了「我们」和「德国人」,基本不可能是同位语,如果是,基本不可能是在说一件好事。这跟我们(或者说普通国家的国民)的行为截然相反。唯一的例外可能是体育运动。但即便在体育运动的时候,你仍旧可以在报上读到类似于「昨天电视台转播与意大利比赛的时候主持人说『轮到我们也赢一次啦』,这叫什么话?谁是『我们』?」这样(在我看来简直神经病)的反省言论。
    2. 但于此同时,一部分德国人——其具体比例,根据不同观察者的认知,介于「极端的一小撮」和「沉默的大多数」之间——对这种单调叙事产生了反感。这种反感可能是出于厌烦:如果从小到大你一直被教育「你爷爷犯了罪所以你也有罪」,或者换一句别的什么话,比如「落后就要挨打」,「没有 X 就没有新 Y」,而如果你胆敢表现出对此的任何质疑,就会有一大堆人义愤填膺地来攻击你或者语重心长地教育你,虽然你也承认他们说的有道理,但你就是觉得很厌烦。这种反感也可能是出于对比或者逆反心理:凭什么别国小孩就可以铜琵琶铁棹板唱「你看五星红旗将高高飘扬,在这自由国土勇士家乡」,我国小孩就得动不动参观集中营焚尸炉,天天听 Justin Swift?凭什么随便我们做错了什么,甚至没做错什么,就会被外国人在我们自己世代生长的土地上,以纳粹、Scheiß Deutscher (Shitty German)相称?
  3. 上述两点使得爱国主义、民族自豪感乃至自我认同这些事情在德国人这里都发生了扭曲。(此处删去若干样例。)有些字面上人畜无害的词语也连带着变成了禁忌,比如 völkisch,「民族的」,或者 Fremdarbeiter,「外来工作者」。
  4. 德国有部分(统计上接近「极端的一小撮」,观感上接近「还真是不少」)人称呼默克尔为 Volksverräter,「民族叛徒」,包括线上或者线下。线下的场合是公众集会,方式是齐声呐喊。这个词被收录为一六年德国的「年度非词」(Unwort des Jahres)。
  5. 从二〇一五年难民潮开始到一七年八月,德国联邦检察院收到了超过一千封对于默克尔的控告,罪名是 Hochverrat,high treason,「高度叛国」[2]。也就是说,有超过一千个个人或者团体不满足于嘴炮和媒体宣传,不辞辛苦地正式向检察院提交了要求依法审判并惩处国家总理的书面申请。高度叛国罪的定义是「通过暴力或以暴力威胁影响联邦德国之存在,或改变经由联邦基本法所定义之秩序」。除此之外还曾有人(AfD)要指控她走私人口。
  6. 但称默克尔是 Volksverräter 并不是一个被普遍接受的共识。表达不满时,「默克尔必须下台」跟简单的「默克尔滚蛋」出现的频率都较之高出许多。换句话说,认为默克尔背叛人民的人毫无疑问是存在的,但至少从表达出来的方式观察,更多人会认为她是做了一件严重的错事。

[1] Tagebücher 1990: Als Grass wegen Auschwitz die Einheit ablehnte - WELT

[2] Mehr als 1000 Strafanzeigen gegen Merkel wegen Hochverrats - WELT


user avatar   wang-tao-tao-91-97 网友的相关建议: 
      

泻药:

为什么有人骂吴三桂汉奸?

为什么有人骂洪承畴汉奸?

为什么有人骂弗拉索夫俄奸?

为什么有人骂赖伐尔法奸?

谁他吗的没有谁的难处?谁他妈的想做臭名昭著的奸贼?

默克尔有多大难处?

比得上吴三桂清李夹击下的四顾茫然?比得上洪承畴主忌僚嫉下的走投无路?比得上弗拉索夫兵败被俘后的万念俱灰?比得上赖伐尔山河破碎后的绝望孤危?

默克尔的难处有多大?不过是仅仅几张报纸、几个报人叫嚣而已,不过是民意支持率稍稍降低而已,又他吗的能怎样?

何至于竟为了一己之短利,而无视国家民族的生死安危,无视文明世界长远发展的大计,放纵数百万中东难民长驱直入,祸延无穷,荼毒万民,并使极右翼激进力量一发不收拾,这他吗的不是奸贼是什么?

所以,安格拉 默克尔

不但是德国人的奸细,

也是西方民主的叛贼,

更是人类文明的敌人。

历史绝不会在乎煞比的辩解,他只在乎萨比的行动。

“正义不朽,故救赎可待来世,国家艰难,故救赎唯在当下”

谢谢!

更多内容,欢迎关注公众号:wtt1316606212


user avatar   gunter-schoech 网友的相关建议: 
      

As a German, I am amazed how much misunderstanding there is around the refugee policy

Let's be clear right from the start: I am no fan of Merkel, and have never been, long time before the refugee crisis. To me, our chancellor Merkel is too much of a politician and too little of a leader: Always waiting and letting others carry out a political fight, then siding with the winning one when the risk is near zero.

In fact, I think this also helps to explain what happened in 2015: When there was a very sharp rise in refugee numbers knocking at our doors in Germany, the country was not ready: For years, Merkels CDU, and even more the CSU party, had blocked any attemps (e.g. made by the liberal FDP party) to define an immigration law: Who do we want to welcome? Who do we not want? Or how many of each per year? Immigration countries like Canada have such laws. And Germany is an immigration country, if you take as a definition that immigration country means that more people come than leave each year. But the label "immigration country" is precisely what CDU/CSU did not want, so they refused to prepare.

When refugees took things into their own hands, that was not really surprising. For years, people had warned that wars, famine etc. would make people from Africa / Middle East come to Europe in masses.

But then, when you don't do things proactively, events overtake you. And when the people are at the gates, what do you do? Shoot them? Merkel is East German, lived in a country which shot those who wanted to escape to the West. Guards used machine guns, there was barbed wire, dogs, even automatic machine guns tied to movement sensors, a real death strip.

That is what it takes to make a border really secure. But is that something we want? Can those in China, who keep asking again and again why Germany accepted refugees really expect Germany to set up such a border again?

The difference between Germany in other countries in Europe in this crisis was primarily not that we "asked them to come", but that a very significant part of refugees identified Germany as the best place to go (be in the long term). For countries which knew that the refugees were only passing through, it was easy to keep the frontiers relatively open (e.g. Austria). And for those, who knew the refugees would not want to go there, it was fairly easy to seal their countries off.

Merkel is no traitor. The lack of preparation might be negligent, but no treason. If clear quotas, information about those rules in the countries of origin of the refugees, more actions against human traffickers etc. would have avoided the flood of refugees is doubtful. It might have been somewhat less maybe.

What certainly would have helped the most is if there had been less conflicts in the Middle East. Some were beyond our control, like the "Arab Spring" uprisings, but the West encouraged them largely. Any ensuing civil war leads to refugees.
Some were truely home-made by the West, especially through the US-led wars in Afghanistan and Irak. In fact, without the "help" of our so called ally USA, I seriously doubt we would have had anything remotely resembling the crisis of 2015.

Hardly anybody talks about that. The root causes. We rather act as if those (Merkel and Europe in general), who did know know anymore how to deal with the consequences, actually WANTED this to happen.

No, Germany is not looking for cheap labor. We always had that on our door step, first with East Germany, now with Eastern Europe all the way to Belarus, Romania and Bulgaria, with Christian background and much better qualification.

And no, definitely nobody has the plan to "exchange the German population" and other conspiracy theories out there.

Merkel just tried to make the best out of a situation which had developed beyond control.

And why not? Germany would be able to handle this number easily and I do believe that there are ethical values in helping those who are in need, beyond the short term bank account. Germany after WW II (which was started by ourselves) received tremendous help and forgiveness by e.g. the same USA who today cause us so much trouble.

Sure, Germany can't cure all the misery of this planet.

BUT: The real limitation that is reached first is not our financial capacity etc. to help. The limitation is the intolerant mindset of too many in our population.

In East Germany, where there are hardly any foreigner today, the tolerance is the lowest, xenophobic right wing extremists are strongest. There, where the christian church membership is by far the lowest in Germany, people pretend to be most afraid of the Muslim faith changing our values influenced over many centuries by Christendom.

It is really sad what all this brings to the surface. A widespread lack of solidarity. By those most educated in a political system which favored sharing and equality.

The clearest signs of willingness for help and solidarity were e.g. in Munich, where trains full of refugees arrived. People there are comparatively richer, and seemed more willing to share, although they were more likely socialized in a system which favored the "survival of the fittest" and individual success over the community.

People are strange.

I learned from all this that

  • More preparation would have been smart. The "ostrich policy" of putting the head into the sand and waiting for the disaster to happen was not a good plan
  • Count with the egoism of people. We talk about a "humane" reaction, "humanitarianism" etc. but in reality, the human breed is very inhuman. So don't overestimate the willingness for solidarity. We face major problems now, not least is Chancellor Merkel's position in great danger right these days, as a result of what happened in 2015. Not because objectively, Europe or Germany can't deal with the burden, but because there are majorities in various countries who don't even WANT to try. That's a fact, if you like it or not.

user avatar   huang-ran-cha-she 网友的相关建议: 
      

巴黎场完整版视频:

bilibili.com/video/av14

(直接从知乎看只能看前段)

会翻墙的话有Youtube完整版:

youtu.be/uO8iFfVuUmA

------------------------------------去年有幸在巴黎看了一场久石让指挥的Ghibli工作室演奏会。而那晚成了我终生难忘的一晚。

我很早之前就把武道馆的录像看了不下一百遍。学习听做家务听,因为真的太喜欢了。我最喜欢的便是演奏魔女里的小提琴。真的太好听了。在武道馆拉小提琴的大叔便成了我的最爱之一。还有呀,天空之城里吹小号的。那是我第一次知道原来小号吹成这么样的。语言形容不出来。对啦还有拉龙猫的大提琴的一个小胖子,大提琴的声音的力量,低沉,有力。可惜他们三一个都没来。来的是久石让,他女儿和欧洲这边的乐团。

即使是这样,演奏会上的歌一出来,我便起鸡皮疙瘩,然后一边觉得很欣慰很幸福一遍止不住得哭。那个音乐里的世界便是最美好的了吧。这不,我打下这话眼里又有泪水了。

我买的票比较靠后,所以久石让我也没看清。可是整场都能感受到大叔的可爱。大叔会一边笑一边上台。

票一张差不多两百欧,人民币大一千多。即使这样,我仍然觉得超值。嗯。那一晚的音乐能温暖我很多年。我看过很多演唱会,Coldplay, Maroon 5, 苏打绿等等(大部分都是Mainstream). 大部分也都是那个月狂热一下,然后就没了。而久石让的Ghibli音乐会,听完的心情,听的时候的满足感,与再听的满足感,回味无穷,都是现在所有Pop不能带给我的。

那晚,大部分时间也是我和男朋友手牵手看完的。有着一生我最爱最爱的人,还有难忘至今的音乐。那个晚上,真回味。




  

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