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按照美军阵亡标准计算,二战德军还有前苏联能阵亡超过五十万军人么? 第1页

  

user avatar   sen-lin-mu-42-19 网友的相关建议: 
      

只能说问题描述中的美军阵亡标准是强行用“战斗中阵亡”的标准(而这个“战斗阵亡”标准还是脑补出来的)代表了所有阵亡情况,但实际中美军对于这些词汇和伤亡情况的定义很复杂,而且不仅仅使用“战斗阵亡”一个标准。

不要用X国这么做,所以Y国、Z国也肯定这么做这种“肯定不止我一个在做”逻辑去推论。

词汇定义

1953年美国陆军部发表的《二战中陆军战斗减员及非战斗死亡最终报告 - 1941年12月7日至1946年12月31日》(Army Battle Casualties and Nonbattle Deaths in World War II Final Report - 7 December 1941 to 31 December 1946)中二战美军将死亡、失踪、负伤等各种减员定义如下:

战斗减员(Battle Casualties):含所有行动时阵亡(战死)者、因行动时所承受之伤势而死亡(战伤死)者、行动时受伤者、行动时失踪者、被敌军俘虏者、被中立国当局扣押者。“在行动时”则为描述伤亡状态是在交战期间或其他情况下因敌方行动直接造成;或是在直接参与、前往或战斗任务后返回时,无论是否因敌方行动导致。1943年9月1日陆军部第195号通告明确表明需排除战斗所造成的神经症状和其他精神疾病在战斗减员之外。这一举动非改变统计口径,而是澄清和明确原计算方法。1945年5月14日陆军部第142号通告宣布将自然因素所造成的减员(如:冻伤、战壕足、足浸病等疾病)排除在战斗减员之外。但由于该通告是在欧战胜利后才发布,已不再是各类伤寒病症高发期,其效果有待商榷。据悉一些战区有时会发布指令要求将战斗中出现严重冻伤者作为战斗减员算入报告之中,但战壕脚却排除在外。

【因为含失踪者、被俘者和被扣押者,所以Casualties翻译作“减员”,而非“伤亡”】

Battle Casualties: All persons killed in action, dead as a result of wounds or injuries received in action, wounded or injured in action, missing in action, captured by the opposing forces, or taken into custody by the authorities of a neutral country as internees. The term "in action" characterized the casualty status as having been incurred as a direct result of enemy action during an engagement or otherwise, or sustained while immediately engaged in, going to, or returning from a combat, mission whether or not due to enemy action. Psychoneurosis and other mental disorders developed under battle conditions were specifically excluded from battle casualties by War Department Circular No. 195, dated 1 September 1943. This 1943 action represented not a change in policy but rather a clarification and explicit statement of the original intent. War Department Circular No. 142, dated 14 May 1945 excluded from battle casualties, injuries due to the elements (frostbite, trench foot, immersion foot, etc.). Since however, this circular was issued after V-E Day and after essentially all of the periods of high incidence of cold injury had passed, its effect is subject to question. It is known that in some theaters, directives were in effect for parts of the war period requiring the reporting of severe frostbite actually incurred in combat as battle casualties but excluding trench foot from such reporting.

战斗死亡(Battle deaths):含所有在行动时阵亡(战死)者、因行动时所承受之伤势而死亡(战伤死)者、行动时失踪並相信身亡者。该数据不包含战斗减员数据中被俘者、被扣押者或行动时失踪者中非战斗原因导致死亡者。(参见“战斗减员中的死亡者”词条)

【举个例子:若一名士兵在作战时与部队走散,却在归队时不幸溺水身亡。则先列为行动时失踪者,发现尸体和探明死亡原因后列为非战斗原因导致死亡者;不列为战斗死亡者,但列为战斗减员中的死亡者】

Battle deaths: All persons killed in action, dead as a result of wounds or injuries received in action, or declared dead from missing in action. This term excludes nonbattle deaths of personnel in a battle casualty status of captured, interned, or missing in action. (See "Deaths Among Battle Casualties.")

被俘(Captured):含所有已确认被敌军俘获者。若未能确认,则算入失踪者或在行动时失踪者中。

Captured: All persons known to have been taken prisoner by opposing forces, In case of doubt as to whether an individual was actually captured, he was reported as missing or missing in action.

战斗减员中的死亡者(Deaths Among Battle Casualties):含所有行动时阵亡(战死)者、因行动时所承受之伤势而死亡(战伤死)者、行动时失踪並相信身亡者,和战斗减员数据中被俘者、被扣押者或行动时失踪者中因非战斗原因导致死亡者。(参见“战斗死亡”词条)

Deaths Among Battle Casualties: All persons killed in action, dead as a result of wounds or injuries received in action, declared dead from missing in action, and dead of nonbattle causes while in a battle casualty status of captured, interned, or missing in action. (See "Battle Deaths.")

相信身亡(Declared Dead):含先前报告中所有失踪后和行动时失踪后杳无音信者,其死亡定论是由代表战争部长的总检察长办公室伤亡处处长根据经1942年3月7日第77届国会修订第490号公法《失踪人员法》第5节作出。在失踪或行动时失踪后12个月或更长的时间后作出死亡定论,若有任何证据显明仍继续生存者则其死亡定论不予受理。相信身亡者需附上相应推断身亡日期,以便官方结算此人账户余额、向此人家庭支付抚恤金和不再向此人继续支付军饷和津贴。而此处推断身亡日期不得少于先前提及的12个月期限,即是至少为失踪日期后的一年零一日。是份报告中相信身亡者一栏只含行动时失踪者中的相信身亡者。失踪者(不含行动时失踪者)中的相信身亡者算入非战斗死亡中,但不作特殊区分。

Declared Dead: All persons previously reported as missing or missing in action, who were no longer presumed to be living, and in whose cases a finding of death was made by Chief of the Casualty Branch, AGO, acting for Secretary of War, pursuant to Section 5 of the "Missing Persons Act," Public Law 490, 77th Congress, 7 March 1942, as amended. Findings of death were made upon or subsequent to 12 months in a missing or missing in action status, and were withheld so long as the person was presumed to be living. They included the date upon which the death was presumed to have occurred for the purposes of termination of crediting pay and allowances, settlements of accounts, and payments of death gratuities. Such date was never less than a year and a day following the day of expiration of the 12 month period. The declared dead columns in this report include figures for those persons classified as declared dead from a missing in action status only. Persons declared dead from a missing status (other than missing in action) are included in the nonbattle death statistics in the death tables, but are not separately identified.

因行动时所承受之伤势死亡/战伤死(Died of Wounds and Injuries Received in Action):含所有因行动时所承受伤势,並且在抵达急救站或其他医疗救治所后死亡者。被俘或被扣押者中因行动时所承受之伤势死亡者也算。

Died of Wounds and Injuries Received in Action: All persons wounded or injured in action who subsequently died after reaching an aid station or other medical treatment facility, and personnel in a captured or interned status who died of wounds or injuries received in action.

被扣押(Interned):含所有被中立国当局扣留者。

Interned: All persons known to have been taken into custody by the authorities of a neutral country as internees.

行动时阵亡/战死(Killed in Action):含上述“战斗减员”词条范围中所有直接死亡者、伤势严重未能抵达急救站或医疗救治所死亡者。包含被俘者统计数据中因空袭轰炸直接导致死亡者和尝试越狱时死亡者。

Killed in Action: Persons coming within the purview of "battle casualties," as defined above, who were killed outright, or who died of wounds or injuries before reaching aid station or other medical treatment facility. This category includes persons in a captured status who were killed outright by air bombardment or while trying to escape.

失踪(Missing):含所有下落不明者、未经批准离队者,此类人员没有确凿证据或合理结论证明已死亡,並且还未被纳入上述定义的各类“战斗减员”词条范围之内。是份报告失踪后发现死亡者和相信身亡者算入死亡者统计表的非战斗死亡栏中,但不作为算入战斗减员统计表。

Missing: Persons whose whereabouts or actual fate could not be determined, who were known to be in an unauthorized absence status, for whom there was no conclusive evidence of death or circumstances leading to a logical conclusion of death, and who were presumed not to have been within the purview of "battle casualties," as defined above, at time of disappearance. Deaths of personnel initially reported in this status, including declared dead case, are recorded in the nonbattle death columns of the death tables of this report, but not in the battle casualty tables.

行动时失踪(Missing in Action):定义类似失踪,但该类人员算入上述定义的“战斗减员”词条范围内。是份报告中的战斗减员统计表中最初上报为行动时失踪者若发现已经算入其他数据栏之中,则需从该栏中减去。不过此栏中需再细分为相信身亡者、归队者、非战斗原因死亡者。在死亡人员统计表中,行动时失踪者中的相信身亡者算入战斗死亡类,而非战斗原因死亡者则算入非战斗死亡类。

Missing in Action: A classification similar to that of missing, except that personnel in this status came within the purview of "battle casualties," as defined above, at time of disappearance. In the battle casualty tables of this report, persons initially reported in this status and later found to have been actually in another battle casualty status were removed from missing in action and placed in the other status. However, those who were declared dead or were returned to duty, and those who died of nonbattle causes are shown as subsequent dispositions from a missing in action status. In the death tables, persons missing in action who were declared dead are included in battle deaths, while those who died of nonbattle causes are included in nonbattle deaths.

非战斗死亡(Nonbattle Deaths):在战斗减员统计表中,该类数据只包含因疾病死亡者和被俘者、被扣押者、行动时失踪者中非战斗原因导致死亡者。而在死亡人员统计表中,该类数据包含陆军所有非战斗原因导致死亡者,如战斗减员数据中被俘者、被扣押者、行动时失踪者中非战斗原因导致死亡者,和其他非战斗死亡者。

Nonbattle Deaths: In the battle casualty tables, this category consists solely of persons who died of disease or other nonbattle cause while in a captured, interned, or missing in action status. In the death tables, this category consists of all nonbattle deaths, Army-wide, and is comprised of those who died of nonbattle causes while in a battle casualty status of captured, interned, or missing in action, as well as all other nonbattle deaths.

行动时负伤/战伤(Wounded and Injured in Action):含上述定义的“战斗减员”词条中所有负伤者,包括行动时所承受各类伤势/战伤,无论穿透伤、挫伤、各类骨折、烧伤、炸伤、脑震荡等伤势统一包含在内。是份报告只包括需入院治疗者,但同时也将得到一定医疗救助却未能运抵医院便死亡者包含在内。

【注意只是“是份报告”不代表全部美军报告都是如此,不要玩美军把死在半路的伤兵不算死人这种文字游戏】

Wounded and Injured in Action: Persons coming within the purview of "battle casualties," as defined above, who were wounded or injured. This category includes all kinds of wounds and injuries received in action whether there was a piercing or tearing of the body, as in a penetrating wound, or none, as in a contused wound; fractures whether simple or compound; burns, blasts, concussions, etc. This report includes only those wounded or injured in action personnel requiring hospitalization, except that those who died of wounds or injuries after reaching some type of medical treatment facility but before reaching a hospital are also included.

伤亡统计

在此标准统计出来的二战美军总战斗减员及非战斗死亡统计表如下:

电子版连接:Army Battle Casualties and Nonbattle Deaths in WW II [Intro/Summary]

行数 种类 人数 备考
1 合计 936259 行8、9、15、20相加
2 战斗减员中的死亡者 234874 行3至6相加
3 -行动时阵亡/战死 192798 行8、16相加
4 -因行动时所承受之伤势死亡/战伤死 26762 行10、13、17相加
5 -相信死亡 6058
6 -其他原因死亡(非战斗) 9256 行18、22相加。本表不计算其余83400名非战斗死亡者。
7 其他战斗减员 701385 行11、14、19、23相加
8 行动时直接阵亡/直接战死 189696
9 行动时负伤/战伤 592170 行10至14相加
10 -在海外因行动时所承受之伤势死亡/海外战伤死 26225
11 -在海外归队 383196
12 -后送本土 182749 行13至14相加
13 --在本土因行动时所承受之伤势死亡/本土战伤死 84
14 --在本土归队、退役等 182665
15 被俘、被扣押 124079 行16至19相加
16 -在被俘时阵亡/被俘战死 3102
17 -在被俘时因行动时所承受之伤势死亡/被俘战伤死 453
18 -其他原因死亡(非战斗) 9098
19 -重回友军控制/被俘归队 111426
20 行动时失踪 30314 行21至23相加
21 -相信身亡 6058
22 -其他原因死亡(非战斗) 158
23 -失踪归队 24098

如果你想说某人尸骨无存所以美军不算入死亡的话,不好意思,二战时美军行动时失踪者中相信身亡者只有6058人(我知道这么说很没有人性),而且是算入总战斗减员的死亡者统计中的。


user avatar   ltharrysmith 网友的相关建议: 
      

这是起亚速迈销售部制定的PPT阵亡标准吧。

不会给这类问题写带数据答案。高赞其实写也不值。哎。

随便喷几句:

军事管理和组织方面的标准往往是最实际的,要解决的是手底下起码管了20-40人的排长的问题,或者是和这些人相关的人的问题

脱离了战场,也不能算作阵亡

这倒是对的,因为其实军事医学需要这个数据。这角度的KIA标准就一个:移送医疗机构前死亡。其实军医大哥护士大姐真懒得管你的情怀,人家关心的是DOW,也就是多少人我能救活,相关医学论文里阵亡率是一个依存于其他数字存在的东西:

KIA refers to the number of combat deaths that occur before reaching an MTF (battalion aid station, forward surgical, combat support and higher levels of hospital care), expressed as a percent of the Wounded in Action minus the RTDs.

06年医学期刊文章,随便搜的懒得写reference。二战的标准其实也是这思路,在所有战斗损失中取到达医疗机构前死亡者。

你要看美军现代官僚系统的标准,那倒确实可以多加一个:

A casualty category applicable to a hostile casualty, other than the victim of a terrorist activity, who is killed outright or who dies as a result of wounds or other injuries before reaching a medical treatment facility.

为了防止在漫长的中东撕比泥潭里哪个阵亡者家属来办公室门口哭天抢地喽,很正常。是我我也这样定。

还“正面战斗”,你OB战场去看么………


user avatar   xiao-xia-yi-si 网友的相关建议: 
      

谢邀,美军的伤亡数据也是有官方数据库的,包含了美军因其它原因造成的战斗伤亡(Battle Casualties),如想考虑“尸骨无存”等原因造成的死亡,把失踪加上即可。

原数据:


埃及-利比亚战役(1942.6.11- 1943.2.12)

阵亡902 被俘1490 失踪878 受伤442 合计3712人(此战仅有航空兵部队参战)


D日前欧洲空中攻势(1942.7.4 - 1944.6.5)

阵亡7143 被俘13048 失踪800 受伤2940 合计23931人(此战仅有航空兵部队参战)


阿尔及利亚-法属摩洛哥战役(1942.11.8 - 1942.11.11)

阵亡449 被俘24 失踪61 受伤720 合计1254人


突尼斯战役(1942.11.12 - 1943.5.13)

阵亡2390 被俘2560 失踪457 受伤2577 合计13924人


西西里战役(1943.5.14 - 1943.8.17)

阵亡2237 被俘592 失踪414 受伤5946 合计9195人


那不勒斯-福贾战役(1943.8.18 - 1944.1.21)

阵亡5398 被俘1999 失踪556 受伤15411 合计23364人


安齐奥战役(1944.1.22 - 1944.5.24)

阵亡4668 被俘2468 失踪479 受伤15558 合计23173人


罗马-阿尔诺战役(1944.1.22 - 1944.9.9)

阵亡10087 被俘5409 失踪2297 受伤29131 合计46924人


北亚平宁战役(1944.9.10 - 1945.4.4)

阵亡7563 被俘4017 失踪3648 受伤21592 合计36820人


波河河谷战役(1945.4.5 - 1945.5.8)

阵亡1719 被俘373 失踪202 受伤6345 合计8639人


诺曼底战役(1944.6.6 - 1944.7.24)

阵亡13959 被俘5087 失踪1093 受伤43221 合计63360人


法国北部战役(1944.7.25 - 1944.9.14)

阵亡15239 被俘4931 失踪1925 受伤49919 合计72014人


法国南部战役(1944.8.15 - 1944.9.14)

阵亡6672 被俘2257 失踪841 受伤5804 合计15574人


莱茵兰战役(1944.9.15 - 1945.3.21)

阵亡43258 被俘19060 失踪5314 受伤172450 合计240082人


阿登-阿尔萨斯战役(1944.12.16 - 1945.1.25)

阵亡16001 被俘23554 失踪3058 受伤62489 合计105102人


中欧战役(1945.3.22 - 1945.5.11)

阵亡13016 被俘3722 失踪1491 受伤44475 合计62704人




  

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