怎样评价甘地？ 第1页

以下引用来自几个月前在quora看到的，元问题是《最不为人知的事实 》

不翻译了，简言之，甘地的非暴力不合作运动并不是英国给予印度独立的原因，实际上印度能独立和非暴力合作一点关系都没有。

印度人被教育说他们是因为甘地而得到解放的。

实际上，英国人其实认为甘地的出现对他们来说是件好事，这避免了许多英国的伤亡，并延长了英国的统治。

英国之所以放弃印度最要原因是他们失去了对印陆海军的控制。

作者最后指出

If anything, every single piece of historical fact shows that Gandhi and his ideas destroyed the very core of India leading it to a path of eventual mayhem not seen anywhere in the world except Nazi Germany.

历史表明甘地及其思想摧毁了印度的核心（传统，价值观等）并使之走向一条灾难性的道路。

追加：甘地祝福第一波针对巴基斯坦的攻击。他从家里走出给到来的3架印度军机予以祝福。所有的非暴力和其他理念都成了狗屁。

on the contrary, Gandhi himself blessed the first attack on Pakistan. Three Indian Air Force planes came to receive his blessings and he came out of his house and blessed the planes. All nonviolence and all that bullshit talk that he was doing his whole life was forgotten.

Anonymous

The best kept secret is most definitely the Indian non violent independence movement. In fact honestly there is nothing even close to it. Because it really is a secret of the highest order. What is the secret ? This is based on partial access to some classified historical documents but I do not officially claim to have seen anything.

The British "gave" independence to India for absolutely no reasons connected with the "non - violent" freedom movement. But 1.25 billion Indians have been programmed to believe that they got freedom because they fought for it in some magical peaceful manner. Gandhi has become one of the greatest icons of modern history. But his efforts were in no way related to India's actual freedom. In fact the British found Gandhi the most convenient man and that is why they kept him alive as long as possible. Because they realized this was the best way to stretch their stay in India in a very convenient non violent sort of way. Less than a hundred targeted killings of British officers and the British would have scooted within a year. The British knew this a few decades before India's actual independence. That is why it was they literally stage managed Gandhi's path to becoming the highly revered Mahatma.

Gandhi's theory of non violence was almost a God send for the British. When sporadic violence erupted in British India, the British feared there would be no way they could control such a large population if they adopted violent means at the level of the citizen even to a very small extent. Gandhi was an absolute Savior for the British. In fact with his help the British got the Indian army to fight World War 2 for them.

What is there in the historical documents which I officially claim to be fiction is mainly discussions about the opportunity costs. The British had access to a land three times the size of India - Australia where even if they filled their entire population it would still be less. The economics of Controlling India vs Trading with India purely on a comparitive basis only marginally favored controlling India and taken with the risk of possible violence and citizen protests it was simply not worth it. The best solution for the British was to quit India in the most non violent friendly fashion so that they could continue to trade with India and then focus on their other assets like Australia which were the real future.

In India there is a small section of people who do understand this but generally it is not very convenient to speak about this in public as the government would squash down any such analysis in the public.

You tell me. Could there be a bigger secret in the world ?

PS: I am updating this answer based on responses in the comments and requests for evidence beyond secret classified documents. All data below can be found through simple google searches but I will add relevant links myself separately later.

UPDATE 1

1. First and foremost it is important to understand and acknowledge that there is not a single shred of evidence to prove any causality between the "Non Violent" freedom movement which was at best sketchy and the actual decision of the British to leave India. It is important to remember this as the burden of evidence in history lies in those making the claim that the non violent movement was a victory and the reason behind India's Freedom. I challenge anyone reading this and those in the comments to provide conclusive evidence in this regard. Indians have Gandhi and non violence for 10 years in their History school syllabus. But not a single shred of causal evidence to prove this.

2. The only part of India's "movement" which was Non violent was the part faced by the British. If you look at it from the Indian perspective, they faced all kinds of violence. Innumerable shootings of Indians are forgotten and only - "The Jalianwala Massacre" remains in their conscience. But people were being killed in India for all kinds of reasons from Hindu-Muslim riots, to British shootings et al. Over 200 people were shot in one such shooting in Calcutta. There is no record of Gandhi's statement "Hindus are cowards, Muslims are bullies" in any history textbook in India though it is proven beyond doubt that he said it.

3. Continuing separately from the above, anyone who argues that India was not ready for freedom a few decades ago etc are basically fooling themselves to keep their dreamy illusion about the human condition from being exposed by the truth. Over 3 million + people died of HUNGER because the British stole the food stock in Bengal in the 1940s. Over 1 million died in a hastily organized partition by the British because it was the most convenient timing suited to THEM not Indians. There is nothing on Earth that was worse than this eventuality. In all ways fighting for freedom and getting it on your own terms with a united Hindu-Muslim India would have been a much better endgame for India than what actually happened to them. Masturbating on the stupid ideas of Gandhi cost India their entire country with the first real division of Hindus and Muslims into two different countries. Again giving the British time helped them in the game to play the Muslims against the Hindus. Thousands if not 100s of thousand people died in simply the Hindu-Muslim riots over many decades culminating in the partition.

3. The then PM of Britain Aitlee is on record saying that the main reason for them to grant India freedom other than the devastation of the Word War was the losing of control on the Indian Army and Navy. Thanks to the seeds sowed by Netaji Subhash Chandra Bose and the frustration of returning soldiers it was completely impossible for the British to control the Indian Army. This is also the PRIMARY reason for them to grant freedom to ALL their colonies even those that hardly had a freedom movement to boot. * Adding this as per the suggestion of Shailendra Sason - To get a flavor of what exactly was going on to undermine the actual power of the British in India, Check out the following wikipedia entry on the Royal Indian Navy Mutiny. The important thing to emphasize is that this entire revolt of the Indian Navy was NOT supported by Gandhi or the Indian National Congress.-

*

4. When asked the importance of Gandhi's non violent movement had anything to do with the decision, He is again on record saying "MINIMAL". There are also other important British officers who have said the same thing. Again this may not be a sufficient condition but makes it that much harder to prove the case that the non violent movement had ANY causality with India being granted freedom.

5. Looked at from an economics perspective it must be remembered lot of interesting theories of Economics were being built and international trade becoming more open was something which was catching on in those times. This was also another reason the economics of the time showed the cost of controlling India was not worth the marginal gains over purely trading with India.

6. All said, I am not implying the fact that Indians wanted freedom did not matter at all. My thesis is that the "non violent" part was not only irrelevant but actually extremely harmful to them as the historical records show. To those who try to say that then the main contribution of Gandhi was uniting India it is important to remember the concept of freedom or "Swaraj" was coined mainly by Lokmanya Tilak and mainly the trio of Lal Bal Pal across the three big regions of India were the ones who united Indian opinion on the demand of freedom. If anything Gandhi had for the most amount of time the opinion that the British were needed in India and India could not be managed by their own. Only later after more efforts by Bose et al did he finally agree for full freedom.

If anything, every single piece of historical fact shows that Gandhi and his ideas destroyed the very core of India leading it to a path of eventual mayhem not seen anywhere in the world except Nazi Germany. To think that 1.25 billion people actually see this history as something to be proud about is always and everywhere going to be one of the world's biggest frauds and hence the truth behind this non violent freedom movement remains Earth's greatest ever secrets.

甘地的主要遗产就是非暴力不合作。

非暴力不合作，是一种非常合乎统治阶级胃口的东西。英国人当年就是一手严厉镇压印度的武力革命派，一手扶持甘地的非暴力派。统治阶级宣扬甘地，是因为非暴力不合作非常容易镇压。如果单独出现，对付起来就很简单。如果此时有暴力抵抗运动，则可以打一派拉一派，缓和矛盾，加强统治。如果当时印度没有武装革命派，那么甘地的运动恐怕早就被镇压殆尽了。

除此之外，甘地的思想还符合中产阶级的胃口，因为社会动荡对中产阶级影响最大（有钱人可以往外跑，没钱人反正也没什么可失去的）。因此甘地的思想不断受到推崇，这和我国某流亡宗教人士的思想在西方备受推崇是一个道理。

看清楚推崇这种思想的阶层的利益取向，也就明白了这种思想有多大价值。有一些社会矛盾，没有暴力是难以解决的。这并不是说，这些矛盾的解决必须依赖暴力。而是说，暴力可以作为博弈的最终手段。自行放弃暴力，其实就是主动放弃博弈的一个重要工具，最终只能导致博弈的对手占尽便宜。如果是底层对抗统治阶层，或者是被侵略者对抗侵略者，那么，这种做法差不多就是自己把脖子伸到屠刀下面、自己先自认一个奴隶地位，然后期盼主子能开恩赏口饭吃。

甘地在二战时主张犹太人集体自杀，来唤起德国人和世界其他地方的人对于纳粹暴行的反感。他还建议中国人不要抵抗，让日本人随便杀，杀了两亿还有两亿，日本最后杀的手软了，自然就会“成为中国人的奴隶”。听着这个调调，你就知道谁会喜欢这种思路了。然后看看如今世界上谁在宣扬甘地的思想。

说白了，这思想就和中国古代君君臣臣父父子子的传统观念一样。听上去很漂亮，其实却被强势的一方当作统治工具来利用。所以，不管甘地本人内心有多高尚，他的整个遗产实质上都是在帮助统治阶层。

有人问“如果当年中国出了个甘地，而不是毛泽东，现在会是怎样”。其实看看印度不就明白了么？下层缺乏反抗精神，于是就一直受压迫，形成强大的阶层划分，造成极度低下的阶级流动性。下层不反抗，自然也就没有多少人关心他们的利益。于是底层的科教文卫都差的要命。连合格的产业工人都培养不出来，于是就是制造业发展不起来。所以，如果当年中国出的是甘地而不是毛泽东，那么今天中国恐怕还不如印度——好歹印度当年还有英国留下来的基础设施，中国这方面差得多。当然，一个人的存在与否是不可能把历史改变这么多的，这里只是顺着那个问题说一说。

以前的甘地是神，是精神领袖。

现在的甘地也是神，只不过是精神枷锁。

以目前印度的现状，底层都不能给上层社会压力，上层继续沉浸在最大民主国家的光环里不可自拔，印度教、甘地功不可没。就印度农村，要在中国，农民兄弟们早就王侯将相，宁有种乎了。

印度是南亚次大陆唯一的大国、印度洋的”霸主“（地理上）、世界第一人口大国、国际环境一级棒，曾经日不落帝国皇冠上的明珠。真心希望印度高举甘地的旗帜，一人一票、不经工业化，迈入现代化，为广大发展中国家树立榜样。真心希望广大东南亚国家学习下，别和中国争制造业了